(14 June 2007)

[19:00] <tristessa> Welcome everyone and thanks for joing us tonight.
[19:00] <tristessa> I’d like to thank Henry for coming, we really appreciate the opportunity.
[19:01] <HenryDillon> Nice to be here!
[19:01] <tristessa> Henry, can you give us a brief rundown of your involvement with the test, just so everyone knows?
[19:02] <HenryDillon> Right, well I’m the editor at Red Squirrel Publishing. We produce study guides, and most recently have published guides for the British Citizenship test...
[19:02] <HenryDillon> ... also known as the Life in the UK Test
[19:03] <tristessa> We polled the members of UK-Y a bit beforehand to get an inital list of questions.
[19:03] <HenryDillon> Great
[19:04] <tristessa> The first one we came up with was how are the questions selected?
[19:04] <HenryDillon> A good starter question
[19:05] <HenryDillon> The questions are based on a text produced by an advisory group many years ago...
[19:05] <garry> NABI?
[19:06] <HenryDillon> These questions are drafted and reviewed by multiple committees to get to a high quality state
[19:06] <HenryDillon> Correct ABNI are responsible for managing the questions now
[19:07] <HenryDillon> back then, it was a different group but chaired by the same person
[19:07] <tristessa> Just for my sake as I don’t want to type over your responses, let me know when you’re ready for the next question
[19:07] <HenryDillon> no problem ...
[19:07] <HenryDillon> the questions are held in a database - there are only about 200 questions in the total pool
[19:07] <HenryDillon> and then chosen randomly by computer
[19:08] <HenryDillon> Many of you may know that the materials have changed recently
[19:08] <HenryDillon> this has also seen the introduction of many country specific questions - i.e. if you live in Scotland then you’ll get questions specifically about Scotland
[19:08] <HenryDillon> or at least some questions specifically about that area
[19:09] <HenryDillon> Next question
[19:09] <garry> wait
[19:09] <garry> :)
[19:09] <tristessa> :)
[19:09] <garry> you said it was pre-ABNI, but how much earlier?
[19:10] <HenryDillon> well the test was first introduced in 2005
[19:10] <HenryDillon> but the actual text they used was published in 2004
[19:11] <tristessa> shall i go on?
[19:11] <garry> TA! over to you tristessa :)
[19:12] <tristessa> Some of us are not familiar with ABNI, who makes up the board determining these questions?
[19:12] <HenryDillon> well, there are different representatives from each country within the UK
[19:12] <HenryDillon> many of whom are ESOL (English as a Second Language) teachers
[19:14] <HenryDillon> The chair used to be Sir Bernard Crick who was an expert in the field of citizenship
[19:14] <HenryDillon> however, he has since resigned
[19:15] <HenryDillon> that ok?
[19:15] <tristessa> sure!
[19:16] <tristessa> Do they have guidelines for determining the relevance of the questions? How do they determine if a question is good or not?
[19:16] <HenryDillon> Well... it’s a tricky and very subjective point
[19:16] <HenryDillon> The most important requirement (in my opinion) is that the question is understandable and un-ambiguous
[19:17] <HenryDillon> Although many people debate the relevance of many of the questions to British life
[19:17] <HenryDillon> Crick himself (chair of ABNI) went on record saying that he thought the test had turned into a ‘pub quiz’
[19:18] <HenryDillon> However, the guidelines that ABNI do publish are that the questions are reviewed and screened by many ‘committees’ and groups for their suitability
[19:19] <HenryDillon> next
[19:19] <HenryDillon> or feel free to comment...
[19:19] <tristessa> Yes, if anyone has anything to add or additional questions at any time, just jump in!
[19:20] <garry> It’s more comforting to know that multiple people are looking at the questions
[19:20] <garry> And not just a few guvvies
[19:20] <HenryDillon> oh yes, it’s a very long process for the govt
[19:20] <SarahBounce> I think that Crick’s comment echo’s many of the UKY members’ concerns about the test
[19:21] <HenryDillon> I completely agree with Crick too
[19:21] <persephone> so what is the process to do the changes they have recently made?
[19:23] <HenryDillon> can I clarify, which questions have changed since the new materials have come into effect?
[19:23] <HenryDillon> or something else?
[19:24] <garry> the new materials
[19:24] <HenryDillon> well... there’s two completely new chapters in the new materials.
[19:25] <HenryDillon> These cover topics about employment and how to live in the UK
[19:25] <HenryDillon> I’d expect these materials to continue changing, as these chapters in particular are very time sensitive
[19:26] <HenryDillon> for example - the maternity leave laws changed the same day they printed the new materials
[19:26] <HenryDillon> hope that helps.
[19:26] <SarahBounce> how do the testing bodies deal with changing information?
[19:27] <SarahBounce> for example: if the answer in the study book is incorect by the time an applicant takes the test?
[19:27] <HenryDillon> We’ve sought advice on this, and the Home Office are usually fairly quick to pull questions that are controversial
[19:28] <HenryDillon> There will always be out of date (or even inaccurate) information in these texts, so any questions that aren’t quite right will just be pulled from the test
[19:28] <HenryDillon> They had an amusing debate about who was the head of the Church of England
[19:29] <HenryDillon> A) God, B) The Queen, or C) The Archbishop of Canterbury
[19:29] <HenryDillon> Not sure if you saw that in the papers.
[19:29] <HenryDillon> <next>
[19:30] <tristessa> Are there avenues for feedback from immimgrants that have taken the tets?
[19:30] <garry> Good one tristessa!
[19:30] <HenryDillon> Yes, you can certainly contact the Home Office
[19:31] <HenryDillon> I don’t have the address handy but they have a special unit for this sort of feedback
[19:31] <HenryDillon> If you have feedback specifically about the Life in the UK study materials, then you should contain ABNI
[19:32] <HenryDillon> Their address is at www.abni.org.uk
[19:32] <garry> Have immigrants ever done that? Make representations at ABNI?
[19:33] <HenryDillon> Probably not common for it to happen directly as an individual, however ABNI rely on other interest groups to get feedback
[19:34] <HenryDillon> Can I ask, is everyone here planning to take the test then?
[19:34] <persephone> Are there forms for either Home Office or ABNI feedback, or could we just give feedback in a standard business letter? I am planning to take the test.
[19:35] <HenryDillon> I would just send them a standard business letter
[19:35] <HenryDillon> They don’t have a formal feedback channel
[19:36] <tristessa> I won’t be taking the test, but I’m a dual national, how many others here have taken it or are going to be taking it?
[19:36] <msbojangles738> I plan on taking the test in July
[19:36] <Leah> i will have to take it, when I can afford the citizenship fees
[19:36] <tanis> I’m going to be taking it - I’ll be applying for ILR in Jan 2008.
[19:37] <SarahBounce> I will be taking it and I believe there are many other UKY members on a settlement route who will also take the test
[19:37] <kwilkins79> Yes, I’m taking it on Friday
[19:37] <garry> :(
[19:37] <garry> They didn’t invent it when I naturalized
[19:37] <HenryDillon> Yes, those fees are quite something.
[19:37] <tristessa> They have hit quite a few very hard
[19:37] <Courtney> It’s too early for me to know if I will stay or not, but I’d like to be prepared just in case.
[19:38] <HenryDillon> kwilkins79: How’s your study gone so far?
[19:38] <persephone> I’m getting ILR next year, so I need to take it.
[19:39] <kwilkins79> Pretty good. I’ve read the specified chapters and have taken a practise test
[19:39] <kwilkins79> missed 16 out of 100 (mostly about the EU)
[19:39] <HenryDillon> Yes, the EU sections are confusing
[19:40] <kwilkins79> That one about the Church of England got me though!
[19:40] <HenryDillon> well - you won’t have to worry about that...
[19:40] <kwilkins79> :)
[19:40] <tristessa> Shall I go on?
[19:40] <HenryDillon> We’ve been doing our own research on this, and although 69% of people fail the test...
[19:41] <HenryDillon> ... we’ve found that 88% of people pass the test when they use our guides
[19:42] <HenryDillon> I think it’s mostly because people find it useful to have lots of practice questions
[19:42] <HenryDillon> please go on tristessa
[19:43] <tristessa> Are there any changes to the test format on the horizon?
[19:44] <HenryDillon> not that I’m aware of at this stage. However the recent emphasis on speaking English might mean that this is more thoroughly tested
[19:44] <HenryDillon> difficult to do using a computer though
[19:44] <HenryDillon> <next>
[19:45] <tristessa> Do you know how far in advance a person might take the test and have it still accepted for their ILR application?
[19:46] <HenryDillon> The Home Office are not clear on this, however we advise people not to leave a gap more than a month between completing the test and filing their application
[19:46] <garry> ooops. didn’t know that!
[19:46] <HenryDillon> Technically you shouldn’t have your application rejected if you do leave a bigger gap, however you run the risk of delays in having your application reviewed
[19:47] <HenryDillon> I think it just helps regulate workload for the Home Office
[19:47] <HenryDillon> <next>
[19:48] <tristessa> Are the questions listed and the information in the book a sampling of what questions could be on the test or are they actually on the test?
[19:50] <HenryDillon> the study materials are reproduced word-for-word from the Home Office text...
[19:50] <HenryDillon> ... however the questions are based on our own assessments...
[19:51] <HenryDillon> ... although they are not exactly the same questions, they cover the same materials and most people have told us that they are a very close match
[19:51] <HenryDillon> the other thing to remember is that the official questions are always in a state of review - despite the official materials being set in stone
[19:51] <HenryDillon> <next>
[19:53] <tristessa> Henry, we have a few more questions, would you like to take a break at 8 or do we need to wrap it up?
[19:53] <HenryDillon> What ever suits
[19:53] <garry> I had a question if it’s not too late :)
[19:54] <HenryDillon> Let’s have it, Garry
[19:54] <garry> The graphics in your book.
[19:54] <HenryDillon> yes
[19:55] <garry> Compellingly simple. What’s the process for those? They are in the HO text also?
[19:55] <HenryDillon> No, those are our own creations. We felt that the original HO text didn’t really help people who hadn’t studied in a while...
[19:56] <HenryDillon> ... so we tried to make studying a bit easier by adding in the diagrams - also adding words to know, calendars and various other tip bits
[19:57] <HenryDillon> Does that answer your question, Garry?
[19:58] <garry> Yes. TA - For somebody in their early - mid 30’s, what’s the best way to study if you haven’t studied in a while?
[19:59] <HenryDillon> Take it in small chunks... some of these sections are fairly dry... pick up the key facts from the revision questions... don’t bother doing any proper practice tests until you’ve read everything
[19:59] <HenryDillon> then once you’ve read everything cover to cover, go on an all out practice questions blitz
[20:00] <HenryDillon> and don’t forget to use our free questions on our website www.lifeintheuk.net/test
[20:01] <HenryDillon> oh and get your partner, girlfriend, boyfriend, work colleagues involved.
[20:01] <garry> anybody can take your online test for free?
[20:01] <HenryDillon> it’s great to have others help you through your studies
[20:01] <HenryDillon> yes, our tests are free online
[20:02] <tristessa> That’s a great resource for those studying to take the test!
[20:02] <HenryDillon> if you’ve got a copy of any of our books, then you can get access to our complete test bank for free too
[20:03] <HenryDillon> Yes, it’s nice to have everything marked and graded for you
[20:03] <HenryDillon> we’ve recently added references to the paragraphs that the questions have come from
[20:03] <HenryDillon> which is something that you’d only be able to do online
[20:04] <tristessa> If I can squeeze in one more question for you and then we can see if there are any others...
[20:04] <HenryDillon> sure
[20:05] <tristessa> Going back to the board that selects the questions, would it be possible if UK-Yankee had an able and willing person, would we be able to lobby for a seat on the board?
[20:05] <HenryDillon> ahhh very difficult
[20:07] <HenryDillon> Although ABNI takes feedback from lots of different groups, I think it would be difficult to become that closely involved.
[20:07] <HenryDillon> But, you only find out from asking, so I’d send them a letter asking about it.
[20:08] <tristessa> Thanks for the advice!
[20:08] <tristessa> Before we check if anyone has any other questions, Henry, do you have any questions for us?
[20:11] <HenryDillon> Well... If anyone has used any of our books, then I’d be very interested in hearing their feedback. We’re always trying to improve things...
[20:12] <garry> We have had SEVERAL recommend it to us, hence our interest :)
[20:12] <HenryDillon> thanks Garry. It’s great to be involved in something that m
[20:13] <HenryDillon> makes people’s lifes easier
[20:13] <tristessa> Does anyone have any specific feedback about the books?
[20:13] <persephone> I have the practice test questions one, and I have to say I do treat it just like my own personal pub quiz. I really have fun with it that way. It’s very useful, and I’m excited to try the online tests.
[20:14] <HenryDillon> Good to hear, persephone
[20:14] <garry> My wife used it and passed the 1st time. And she failed the driving test at least 6 or 7 times :)
[20:15] <Cadenza> let’s not bring up driving tests now. That’s traumatic for too many of us :)
[20:15] <HenryDillon> ha
[20:16] <tristessa> Does anyone have any other questions for Henry before we call it a night?
[20:16] <persephone> I do find it easy to use because the questions are worded such that if I do get it wrong, I can usually easily find the section in the book to work through and understand the correct answer.
[20:17] <HenryDillon> That’s good - check out the questions online - they’ve got direct references to the paragraphs in the book which is useful too
[20:19] <tristessa> Any more questions for Henry?
[20:19] <garry> If we do write a letter to ABNI, may we say we were referred by you?
[20:20] <HenryDillon> To be honest it probably wouldn’t help if you were. I would go into it as a completely independent body.
[20:21] <garry> Good! I’m grateful for your spending some time here this evening, Henry
[20:22] <HenryDillon> Thanks for inviting me
[20:22] <garry> Please drop by the forum any time :)
[20:22] <tristessa> Thank you Henry, it’s been wonderful having you here and we appreciate the time and effort you’ve put into tonight.
[20:22] <SarahBounce> yes, thank you very much
[20:22] <persephone> Thank you very much for your time!
[20:22] <SarahBounce> it’s been very informative
[20:23] <msbojangles738> thanks so much
[20:23] <Leah> yes, thank you so much for taking the time to come Henry
[20:23] <tristessa> I’d like to thank all the UK-Y members for coming tonight as well!
[20:24] <Leah> absolutely
[20:24] <Elizabeth> :)
[20:24] <Courtney> Thank you!
[20:25] <tristessa> Well I guess that wraps our chat. Again, Henry, feel free to stop by any time and we look forward to hearing from you again. Good night everyone! [20:25] <garry> night!
[20:25] <persephone> good night.
[20:25] <HenryDillon> Alrighty - Good night all!
[20:25] <Leah> good evening everyone
[20:26] <garry> let’s do this again sometime!
[20:26] <tristessa> I agree!